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Honour Your Inner Magpie

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International Blog Against Racism Week
elf hill
[info]elisem
Yeah, it takes me a while. I'm having an inarticulate week.

Actually, mostly I am reading other people's stuff, and pondering things, and then having little bits of the past and the present connect up with other things, and the words aren't coming out, much. Snippets of them. I could tell you about jokes....


"So these two black guys...." Yeah, makes me tense up any time I hear that. What I learned growing up was that it was going to be a joke about how stupid black people were. Granted, there were more Polack jokes being told in the school I went to than there were black jokes. There were lots of Polish folks in town, and only one black kid. But anyhow, those jokes had a thing in common: the people who were the butt of them were defined as stupid and dirty and never capable of getting things right.

So the other day, a white guy started telling me this joke. "So these two black guys are walking down a street and they see a sign that says Untanning Parlor."

Ooh-kay, I think. The person telling me this is somebody I've known for years, but that doesn't mean I don't get that tense feeling, that pit-of-the-stomach uh-oh. Maybe it's worse if I've known somebody for years, if I suddenly am shown something so plainly that I can recognize it, and then wonder how I could have missed that about them, and wonder what else I've missed, what I didn't stop. So I was worried.

"So the sign says Untanning Parlor: special, $1.95. And the one guy sticks his hand in his pocket and says, "Damn, I've only got a buck ninety." And the other guy sticks his hand in his pocket and says, "I have two bucks. I'm going in." And he does."

Uh-huh. I'm waiting. This could go anywhere. But my guts know that it's probably not going anywhere good. And yet, I know this person.

Do I know this person? What do I know? What do I miss?

"So after a little while, the guy comes out and he is totally white. I mean, white, absolutely. And the first guy says, "Whoah! That's really... I gotta try that. Hey, bro, give me that nickel." And the other guy looks at him and says, "Get a job."

Huh. Not where I expected that one to go, though I was mostly trying hard not to expect. I laughed. The delivery was good.

Is it funny because of all the million other jokes, the ones that go where I was worried this one would? A joke with a twist only works because it's metacommentary on what's usual, what's normal.

Normal. A word to conjure with. I once was talking to somebody in my home town, someone who right after saying what they said, swore me to secrecy forever about their identity as the sayer of what I am about to tell you. She was a young woman who lived in my home town, and she watched soap operas, as lots of women around there did. I didn't much, though I maintained a polite social interest. She was telling me about one character whose family was all angry at him, because he had gone down to the Virgin Islands or Barbados or somewhere and gotten engaged and married in a whirlwind courtship. I was trying to figure out how come his family was so upset, and I knew this character -- like most of the characters on any soap opera in the nineteen-sixties -- was white, so I asked, "Is she black?" And the person replied, "No, she's normal."

And then she clapped her hands over her mouth and made me promise never to reveal her name. She realized what she had said, and what it meant. She was horrified at what had just come out of her mouth.

It was a little farm town in the upper midwest. When I was growing up, my sister and I were the kids who wouldn't say "eeny meeny miney moe, catch a nigger by the toe." We went for tiger instead. Some of the neighborhood kids picked on us for it. Our folks, though, said we were doing the right thing to say tiger, and that the other was unkind and mean.

I remember my dad explaining to me some of the political rhetoric being thrown around in the middle sixties, and what was wrong with the people whose response to black Americans fighting for their rights was to say "send them back where they came from." He told me -- I was probably about six at the time -- that they (the black people) mostly hadn't had much choice about getting here in the first place, but that they were from here NOW, and that nobody could just tell them "Well then, uproot your lives and leave!" and think that that was an adequate response to the justified anger and frustration and determination that the civil rights marchers and protesters were expressing.

Then again, when it came down to a question of his daughters dating black men, he wasn't exactly comfortable with that. He said he thought it would be too hard on the children, that they'd face too much prejudice. (Nobody said to him, "But dad, we're from here NOW.") Neither of his daughters married black men, though both dated them, among people of other colors.

Yeah, America, it's all black and white. Remind me to tell you about my sweetie Vijaya, who got hassled by some white assholes in the TV lounge at Coffman Memorial Union right around the time the Iranian hostage situation was going on. The white boys couldn't be bothered to notice any nuances other than "you are sort of ivory-brownish, and therefore Alien" and since the aliens they were all about bashing right then were Iranians, that's what they decided he was. I got really, really angry. (He showed me later something he wrote about that day. He said he would have said something to them when they started, but he was feeling a little tired, and besides, he said of me, "she was cutting them up pretty good.") They finally fell back on telling him to go back where he came from. At that point he said, "I was born three blocks from here, in University Hospital. Get the hell out of my neighborhood."

Yeah. Like that. I am reminded of being explained to by British friends that it's not color that says where you came from there, but how you talk. There's some of that here, but mostly it's the book by its cover. And there aren't many categories in the minds of the folks making the judgements.

How much do I do that? I don't know. I try not to be a jerk. I try not to let racist crap pass unchallenged, but it's not anything I feel virtuous for doing, because it's all playing catch-up. Things are so screwed up so often that it's the Normals against the Designated Scapegoats, and no matter how much confrontation, remediation, and reparations I do, it's not something that ever has joy in it. Because it is something I inherited from a lot of other people who are pale like me (but a bunch of them had a lot more money -- though in the end, that doesn't let me off the hook in any way, because white people without money also do the racism thing, so hey). It's something I didn't ask for, but I've got it, and we're from here NOW, and we have to figure out how to make here better for more than just some of us.

I wonder how come people don't say "I'm worried about how hard it will be on the children" when they mean "so we should do a better job at stopping this racism crap and cleaning things up," instead of meaning "so you shouldn't date that person of darker hue than you." Well, OK, it's a rhetorical wonder, but still.

I do kind of like the untanning parlor joke. I like jokes that are Coyote jokes, that are trickster jokes meant to shake something into a new light.

I told [info]pisces3857 a joke once. Rather, I... well, I don't exactly know what to call it. I'll describe it, and you decide.

Now, he and I go back a long time, back to when we used to work together. He was my boss, and I got him into fandom so I could get more time off to go to conventions, but that's another story. Suffice it to say that when we first became friends, there was the sort of polite reserve in the friendship that was still appropriate to the office. After we got laid off in the Grand Massacree, we stayed friends, stayed in touch, and gradually loosened up a little, but I think there was still a tiny bit of reserve left on that night that I said to him, as he was driving me home from an evening of socializing, "Hey, um, Ishmael? Can I tell you something I've never told anybody before?"

Now, [info]pisces3857 is from Brooklyn, and he has the best bullshit-detector voice. And when I asked him that in a sort of breathy tone, he used it right then, sort of a drawled, "O-kaaaaaay...." How so much skepticism got into two syllables I don't know, but it was a beautiful thing.

I said, "It's always been a fantasy of mine..."

I could see him looking over at me for an instant as he drove, and he was probably thinking that he thought he knew me, but what was this? Maybe he was thinking, "Things that start out like this don't generally end well." I dunno; I've never asked him. I should, probably. Anyhow, he said "Oooo-kaaaaaaaay" again, even more skeptically, so I went on.

"I've always had this fantasy that some day, on a beautiful summer evening, just like this one, I could ride down the street in a car with a black man...."

He didn't even need to say the word this time. The bullshit-detector was beaming full-force. Or maybe it was just the Brooklyn. I forged ahead.

"And we could go driving down the street until we came up alongside a white man walking on the sidewalk..."

He wasn't totally sure where this was going, but he was giving me enough rope. Also, a hairy eyeball. I worked not to crack up in giggles, and managed to keep my voice level, though probably the breathiness increased a tad.

"We could drive up alongside a white man walking on the side, and I could lean over and lock the door."

He about drove off the road. "Damn!" he said, when he could form words again. "I think that's one of my fantasies too, now!"

Jokes like that aren't funny unless the contrast to what's usual, what's "normal", is comprehended.

I've told that one a few times. It's always a little shocking to me when somebody doesn't get the joke. The ones who don't get it? They're never, ever anything other than white.

I don't kow what any of this all means. I am a little fearful that I'm waving a banner around and dancing up and down and trying to win a hat that says Clueful White Chick, or something. And I'm not. I miss all sorts of clues. Not just about racism, but many things. But racism is the topic of this thing, and I felt like I couldn't write anything about it, and now I have. Whether it's worth anything, I have no idea. But it's out there. It's what I've got, or at least what I've got that I can be articulate about at the moment, so here you go.

who now lives with her parents in Colorado who is terrified to stop in rural Kansas when she's traveling with her husband and kids. Apparently someone said something once to this normally confident woman that scared the fark out of her about her interracial marriage and brownish childrens. Or maybe threatened her husband because of his race and assocation with a 'white' woman (she's actualy mixed too, but two/three generations back).

For myself, I believe that anyone in America except immigrants who know their ancestry since they came to America in the late 1800s are probably enough mixed that in the deep south they'd be considered black. That one-drop thing.... I so don't care. I just hope they don't get hurt by bigots (my brother in law and his wife moved out of Dallas partly because of the hatred of interracial couples...)

Fifteen years ago, when I was teaching remedial English in an inner-city university (50% of the students were the first in their families to go to college), one of my students wrote an essay on that lock-clicking. How he'd heard it his whole life, those locks shutting him out. He was a smart, hard-working kid who had gotten a lousy education from his inner-city school (35% unemployment there even among white people; worse for Black). He wanted to be a doctor. The day he earned his pass out of remedial writing (with an amazing essay on J. Alfred Prufrock), he got the department secretary to unlock my office door, and he left a bouquet of flowers on my desk.

You know where this is going, don't you.

I didn't go to the funeral, but I sent his mother a note about how smart and kind Kevin had been, and what a tragedy he'd been caught in the crossfire. In a moment of danger, all the doors had been locked against him, and the clicking he heard was from someone loading a gun.

My mother taught for 38 years Special Ed in the NYC public school system. She had a student like that. He started out hiding in the cupboard when he was six and refusing to come out, and when he was 13 he was mainstreamed. At 18 he was accepted to Harvard on a full scholarship.

He was shot a few weeks before school by his girlfriend's jealous ex.

I don't know that I've ever seen my mother sob so hard in my life as I did that day. I was in my room and I heard a wail. She was watching the 11 o'clock news.

N.

...no matter how much confrontation, remediation, and reparations I do, it's not something that ever has joy in it.

And that's why I think the whole perpetuating of white guilt/punishment of people for white privilege needs to stop.

If you're speaking up and challenging racism when and where you see it because you genuinely think it's wrong and you want to turn things on their ears and make a change, as it seems from this writing that you are, then I say more power to you and can I stand by your side?

But if you are motivated by the guilt and what's gone before that's been handed down to you (and now I mean the generic, not specific you), and not from some genuine wish to do good, then what's the point?

Nah, I am motivated not by guilt, or at least not mostly, but by profound sorrow and outrage. Big difference. At least to me.

And confronting that kind of thing just doesn't have joy in it for me. It has something at least as important as joy, or I wouldn't do it -- and I can't NOT do it, at least if my life is any indication so far -- but I don't feel joy. I do feel good about getting the chance to do it, though, if you catch my distinction. Grateful about getting the chance to do it, I guess would be the most accurate way to say it.

Besides, if part of what this whole fucked-up system does is to generate (among other feelings) guilt in me, so what? I can take it, and get myself together and do whatever needs to be done. It's a hell of a lot lighter load than bearing the full brunt of racism, that's for damn sure. At least, that's how I feel about it. And if sometimes that's what it takes to catch my attention, then I'll probably give some infuriating wry Scandosotan grin and say, "Well, ya know, by any means necessary." Mind, I am only speaking for myself; anybody else's feelings are their own business, and I am not prescribing or recommending guilt to anybody else for any reason whatsoever. But yeah, sometimes I got it, and so what? For me, maybe it's part of the price of admission to the Hall of Getting A Clue, and if so, I think it's a bargain anyhow.

I'll attend to whatever guilt is in my motivations once the work is at a place where I feel like I can spend the time on lesser things. Because to me, any guilt I've got IS a lesser thing. What's the point? Doing the work, that's what's the point. Deeds, even from mixed feelings, even from conflicted and unclear motives, matter. They're the only way we get anywhere.

OK, I hope I haven't thumped you, but have instead thumped the topic. It's a soapbox of mine, apparently. Thank you for saying the thing that sparked me off.

(I gonna post this bit on its own, because I think it'll snowball into its own discussion.)

I'm posting my own comment separately--it seemed worth saving, and not waiting until I do my next "misc. comments" collection.

I don't feel thumped, no worries.

I do feel good about getting the chance to do it, though, if you catch my distinction. Grateful about getting the chance to do it, I guess would be the most accurate way to say it.

I get the distinction, I think. It's definitely different from what I have heard other people say when I've discussed this particular piece of the whole racism puzzle before, so thank you for that.

I have my own soapbox(es) when it comes to race issues. You're welcome.

Doing the right thing from inferior motives is still doing the right thing.

Someone who doesn't steal because she believes it is inherently wrong, or thinks about the potential victim, may be a better person than someone who doesn't steal because she's worried about being sent to jail. But either is better than someone who figures what the hell, he'll steal because it's what he wants to do and there's no point suppressing his impulses.

The point of challenging racism isn't that it makes me a better person. It's that racism is evil and destructive and should be challenged, whether I do it from compassion, abstract belief in justice, or even guilt. It's not as though feeling guilty and not challenging racism helps anything.

It's not as though feeling guilty and not challenging racism helps anything.

Exactly.

And if I thought I had to feel just so before taking any action, I would march myself into the bathroom and look in the mirror on the door of the medicine cabinet, and sing myself a rousing chorus of "Dude, it is not all about you!!" And then I would get myself back to work.

The point of challenging racism isn't that it makes me a better person. It's that racism is evil and destructive and should be challenged, whether I do it from compassion, abstract belief in justice, or even guilt.

I should have said solely because of guilt or primarily from guilt or something like that.

I second-guess people who are interested in making something better because someone else told them to or made them feel as if they should, rather than because they want to, first. Which is what I mean by motivated by guilt.

But I do understand that doing nothing solves nothing, yes.

From a sociological standpoint, I'd note that it is in fact very difficult, sometimes I'd say impossible, to change attitudes in full-grown adults. They may grant exceptions to stereotypes--even lots of them--but they don't abandon the stereotypes as baseless, that kind of thing. What you can change, however, is behavior, and what is considered "acceptable." And those things in turn DO change attitudes--by cohort. The people who grow up being taught that the expression of racist attitudes is wrong are more likely to feel that racist attitudes themselves are wrong, and less likely to hold those attitudes (though of course there are plenty of examples of insidious racism today that people try to pass off as not racist because it is not as explicit as past racism). You can't make people THINK the right thing, but sometimes enforcing strong sanctions against doing the wrong thing eventually leads to people not wanting to do it at all.

Doing the right thing from inferior motives is still doing the right thing.

Yes. I lived in various places in the South. For a generation or so, people who are still racist inside have pretended they weren't (I'm talking about a subset). Their children have had this example, and are less racist than their parents. In twenty years in Virginia, it seemed like every group of three or more kids included at least two races, and there were plenty of mixed couples. Of course, I'm an earlier generation, and I still feel prejudiced inside, so I notice these things. I don't know if my daughter does or not. I don't point them out.

There are still a lot of forms of racism that do their own harm, but progress is still progress.

I once thought I should go into business selling "White Guy Club" cards by mail. Each one would certify that the bearer was a White Guy, and entitled to the benefits thereof. Problem solved, just like that, and the Nobel would look good over my fireplace.

(Deleted comment)
Heh. No, you hadn't mentioned that.

Then again, when it came down to a question of his daughters dating black men, he wasn't exactly comfortable with that. He said he thought it would be too hard on the children, that they'd face too much prejudice.

This reminds me of a thing my father said about my grandmother after I came out poly to him.

My father's sister married my uncle in the early seventies; a mixed-ethnicity marriage. And to hear my father tell it, my grandmother's reaction to this was, "If I were the one running your life, this isn't what I'd choose for you. I'd choose something safer, calmer, quieter. But I'm not the one running your life. I'm your mother. And I will be there for you as best I can."

Live and love happens

[info]dragonet2

2007-08-10 03:15 am (UTC)

and you can't stand in the way of people who are right for one another...

I just pray every day that this land comes out of the darkness and welcomes the fact that mixed is better, because really we're all the same folks no matter what our skin color. And pray that my friend, her husband, my brother-in-law, his wife, and all their children are not harmed by assholes acting on their bigotry.

I just plan on loving all of them and hoping for the best.

Re: Live and love happens

[info]wild_irises

2007-08-10 03:02 pm (UTC)

I'm not sure that "mixed is better." That way lies "not mixed is worse." Mixed is lovely; so is pure-bred anything (though I confess that, despite the fact that they're the only folks I've ever been partnered with, I have some reservations about pure-bred European WASP [to the extent that there is such a thing]).

Re: Live and love happens

[info]wild_irises

2007-08-10 03:05 pm (UTC)

That's my prejudice, and not meant to be a statement about anyone in particular.

That's lovely. I think it's entirely reasonable for parents to want something that seems safe for their children, entirely *un*reasonable for them to try to keep their children from doing otherwise, and absolutely beautiful when they glory in the results a few years later (say, a happy marriage for their daughter, or beautiful grandchildren).

When I was headed towards mixed-race marriage (European-Asian) I blamed my mother of racism, but the difficulties she feared would wait for me in this marriage were political, cultural and geographical and they did make my life harder, even if I still think the results made it worth.

Not long ago on a mainly American message board someone addressed her worries about raising a mixed race kid (her kid is also Asian-European mix). What surprised me (and I DID ask the children, as I suspected that may be they simply had not shared their experiences with me) was that neither me nor the children felt there has been any additional snag in their life due to their mixed race.

I believe I mention the above to show that one cannot predict without fail, as racism and xenophobia ARE floating around in the society I live in just as (or even more than? At least over here American political correctness is often seen as another example of American cultural imperialism) much as in USA, yet it is possible that either the prejudice does not show up or the kids find ways to evade it without feeling any hardship.

I saw today, in the "overhead in mpls" feed, a quoted conversation between an "asian guy" and a "minnesotan woman." Ummmm.....wtf? Now, it's possible that the "asian guy" was clearly a visitor from an Asian country and the "minnesotan woman" was clearly a native, but this was not demonstrated by the conversation quoted. Yikes.

I hate it when people do that. Because yeah, exactly.

I've heard that joke recently, only it was 2 Jews going past a church reading a sign that the place was offering conversions for $200, and the one goes in and is gone a long time, and finally comes out, and the other says, "So? Did they really give you $200 to join that church?" and the first one says, "Is that all you people think about? Money?"

K.

It was a little farm town in the upper midwest. When I was growing up, my sister and I were the kids who wouldn't say "eeny meeny miney moe, catch a nigger by the toe." We went for tiger instead. Some of the neighborhood kids picked on us for it. Our folks, though, said we were doing the right thing to say tiger, and that the other was unkind and mean.

This kind of thing is really hard for me to imagine, mainly as a function of age cohort, I imagine. My father often tells us about when he was a little boy and my aunt yelled at him for drinking out of the "colored" water fountain at the grocery store (they lived in south Florida). And later, he visited our other aunt in New York and one of her friends chewed him out for using the word "colored," which upset him because it was the nicest word he knew.

I know that I knew the word "fuck" before I started kindergarten, but not the word "nigger." (Which is still difficult for me to type; almost impossible to say.) I supposed I would have learned it eventually when my father read me Huckleberry Finn.

Molly Ivins told a wonderful story somewhere about John Henry Faulk and (I think) Alan Lomax practicing saying "Nee-gro. Nee-gro." before a venture out of Texas, because they'd heard it was the term used elsewhere by people who didn't want to sound racist. (I think they might have grown up saying "nigra" when trying not to be offensive.)

The story about the woman who was horribly embarrassed for saying "black" and "normal" is the sort of thing that gives me hope - because two decades before that she wouldn't have been embarassed. Hopefully now, decades later, she wouldn't think in those words. And if we know that change has happened, we know that it can happen, that though there's a long way to go we can make progress on that road.

I'm glad Elise shared these stories...reading them was a healing moment for me - I experienced rather much of that "normal" vs "non-white/non-midwestern/non-Christian" while in a longterm relationship with someone from Indiana. It's really nice being part of an extended family where "[Trinker] is an American" is taken for granted, now.

And...I don't know if that woman would ever think in those words again, but I do see that people *do*, they just don't express it. That is some improvement.


I know, some people do. I've gotten a strong feeling, when they were talking about their wives, that some of my male coworkers have thought in terms of "normal people" and "women". Only I think as a coworker and fellow engineer I counted as an honorary "normal person", except when I said something gender-specific.

But if I read Elise's story right, she's talking about something that happened in the 1960s. I'm betting that a woman aware enough of the implication of her own words to swear Elise to secrecy then has been successful at changing her thinking in the last 40 years. If she'd said that then without embarassment, I wouldn't be betting that way.

I'm sure that woman never *said* those words again, and I'm willing to bet that in the intervening time, she's worked really hard to change the way she thinks. Whether she's succeeded or not...I think she's the only one who knows.

Regardless, I am truly joyed to hear that she had that initial reaction.

I've been making it a daily practice to observe where pop culture in the U.S. has become more and more multicultural. It's been a good and healing thing for me. Elise's story makes a marvelous splash in my pool.

You're right, we'll never know about that case. Still, I think it's reasonable to hope. (Also, if she really has worked to change the way she thinks or at least the way she acts, she's almost certainly affected how those around think and act, at least a little.)

I get a little frustrated when people tell me that nothing has changed, because if you read a little history so much clearly has. I don't think that's a reason to stop working for change. (I guess people who say nothing's changed are usually afraid that others will think the battle is over.) I think of it more like hiking up a mountain; when I get frustrated at seeing how far away the peak still is, I turn around and look back to be heartened by how far I've come. It helps me believe I can make it the rest of the way.

I believe we're in violent agreement here.

I'm suddenly remembering those Virginia Slims ads - "you've come a long way, baby..."

Some people do try to make out that the battle's over. Meanwhile, it's been a heartening exercise for me, personally, to note which parts are now part of the norm, and *then* to look at what's left.

Not even violent :-)

The other nice thing about being able to see changes is that clearly, some of the tactics used to make those changes *worked*. So then you have something to study, to figure out what might work in attacking what's left.

Two thoughts:

1. A friend of mine in college used to go around telling anti-jokes. e.g. "How many straight white men does it take to screw in a light bulb? One." "A straight white man walked into a bar. He ordered a drink." It was his way of pointing out how "straight white man" is perceived as the normal against which everyone else is a deviant. (I don't know how successful he was. He usually had to explain this after he delivered his anti-joke.)

2. I've been reading IBARW blog entries all week. This one was just beautiful. Thank you.

(BTW, I still want to read the novel you brought to VPX when you finish it!)


There was a time in Atlanta (Worldcon, I think( when I was on a panel with Larry Niven, and Steve Barnes, among other people, and Steve was late. I'd never met him before, so I didn't know that this was typical.

So, about five minutes into the panel, he walks in and, the whole room quiets.

"Sorry I'm late," he said. "But, well, I've never been in the South before, so I just had to go rent a pink cadillac convertible and drive around the back roads with a big sign reading WHERE AM THE WHITE WOMEN?"

I thought Niven was going to hurt himself laughing.

I just hurt myself trying to not laugh because I'm reading this in a library. BRILLIANCE.

yer so fine.

Love this. The first joke, I think, is funny not only because of the others, but also because anti-white jokes are so rare (in white people's hearing, that is).

I used the "N" word once. It was at a friend's house, and a friend of his was there, and he got this clever look on his face, and said, "Any n*****s here?" There were just the three of us and, as you know, I'm whiter than Hitler.

I said, "Yeah, I'm a n*****."

And it worked. Whatever goddamned stupid racist joke he was going to tell, he kept it to himself.

Oh, good for you! Excellent.


Reminds me of the story I was told about Corey Brust and the jerk making anti-gay remarks in the booth next to him at some all-night restaurant; I heard that Corey wound up saying something to him, and the guy demanded to know if Corey was gay, and Corey said something on the order of, "If it bothers you, then yes, yes I am gay."

If you don't mind, I think I'll steal that line, because I do sometimes find myself in situations vaguely like that, and knowing I've got that line on standby will help me speak up.

I don't mind, and more to the point, it's unlikely Corey would mind. I say go for it.

I officially never expect to be clueful. If a person calls me clueless it means I'm still a guinea pig, which is all I need.

I'd LOVE to see the characters in the last joke do exactly that. In fact, we should all start locking the door when we see white people, just to make the point.

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